Date: Nov 30 2004
From: ABC NewsHoward chases free trade at ASEAN summit As the economy reels from a succession of record trade deficits, the Prime Minister has evolved into a globetrotting free trader, bent on securing new markets for Australian products.
But it's a single-minded enterprise.
Mr Howard wants the benefits, but not the baggage of a regional partnership with ASEAN.
He's certainly not pursuing the idea of joining the grouping and he's not, in the least bit, interested in signing ASEAN's "sacred text" - the treaty on amity and cooperation.
So where does this leave Australia's relations with the region after an historic invitation to attend the ASEAN summit?
Earlier this evening we spoke to the Prime Minister during a break in the Laotian capital of Vientiane.
Mr Howard, thanks for joining us.
JOHN HOWARD, PRIME MINISTER: Great pleasure, Tony.
TONY JONES: You've, I gather, just come straight from a meeting with the Chinese Prime Minister.
Do you have anything to report on the free trade agreement or proposed free trade agreement with China?
JOHN HOWARD: I think it's fair to say that we're making progress.
Of course, our relationship trade-wise with China is already strong, whether we have a free trade agreement or not, but if we can get one, then that will be a sign that the relationship will become even stronger.
The other issue we talked about quite a deal, of course, was North Korea, where both of us agreed that this issue should continue to be addressed within the context of the six-power discussions involving the two Koreas, Japan, Russia, China and the United States.
It remains, of course, a major issue for the region and one that does have to be handled with a great deal of care and skill.
TONY JONES: Were you urging the Chinese to take a bigger role in influencing what North Korea does?
They're one of the few powers that still has some influence in Pyongyang.
JOHN HOWARD: Yes, I was.
I put it in the context of thanking China for the very involved way in which it had approached this issue.
China has more influence on North Korea than any other country, and the impression I gained from the Premier and also from President Hu Jintao, with whom I had a lengthy discussion at the APEC meeting in Chile only a few weeks ago - or a few days ago - was that China would continue to be very heavily involved, and that is good because China is the one country in the world that has a real capacity to influence the behaviour of the North Koreans.
But it's still a difficult issue and one that requires the cooperation of the Chinese and the Americans and the Russians and the Japanese, and my views and those of the Chinese Premier were echoed in the discussion I had with the Japanese Prime Minister earlier today.
He also, of course, is heavily focused on this issue, for understandable reasons, and he shares the same view that both of us discussed and set upon in our discussions a few minutes ago.
TONY JONES: Did the Chinese Prime Minister also raise with you the very vexed issue of Taiwan and the way in which the government there is currently moving?
JOHN HOWARD: Not in a great amount of detail.
I indicated to him that we remain committed to a One China policy, that we wanted restraint and a peaceful, moderate approach to be adopted by all concerned.
Australia has no interest in a dispute between China and the United States over Taiwan, and that is a view that I put on every occasion that I'm discussing the matter with anybody, and that's certainly a view that I know that the Chinese recognise to be ours.
We are a pragmatic advocate on this issue.
We do not want to see it become a flashpoint - it should not be - and it should be resolved in a sensible, pragmatic fashion.
TONY JONES: Have you been asked at all for any reassurance from the Chinese as to what the ANZUS alliance would mean for Australia in terms of military support to the United States if there were a flashpoint in Taiwan?
JOHN HOWARD: No, that issue hasn't come up, Tony, and I wouldn't expect it ever would.
TONY JONES: Have you been formally asked by any of the ASEAN countries to sign the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation?
JOHN HOWARD: No, it hasn't been raised, except by the media.
TONY JONES: The ASEAN leaders did put out a statement after Korea and Russia signed the TAC saying they would like other countries - such as Australia and New Zealand, presumably - to accede to the treaty, but that position hasn't been put to you at all?
JOHN HOWARD: No.
Nobody has raised the issue with me.
We're to have a formal session a little later on, but the issue has not been raised in any of the discussions that I've had.
I'd be surprised if it were raised in any formal way, myself.
TONY JONES: It does seem to be raised a lot informally by ASEAN leaders as well as the statement that they put out earlier.
Do you think that if it weren't for your previously stated pre-emptive strike doctrine, this wouldn't be an issue at all?
JOHN HOWARD: Tony, I don't think pre-emptive strikes, so-called, have got anything to do with the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation.
We have no hostile intentions towards anybody in this region.
Look, we have reasons that have been explained by Mr Downer and myself for our position in relation to this treaty.
It's got really to do a lot with our attitude to treaties of this kind and the origins of it and the language of it, and it really - that attitude predates any of this debate about pre-emption.
So the two are completely unrelated.
Look, it's one of those issues of form rather than substance which don't in any way influence whether we're close to the countries of this region or not.
Having just had bilateral meetings with the Premier of China, the Prime Minister of India and the Prime Minister of Japan and having, over the course of the last few weeks, had any number of interactions with the leaders of Indonesia and Malaysia and Singapore and Thailand, both at this this meeting and at the APEC meeting, it's pretty plain to me and plain to anybody looking objectively at these things that this country's relations with our neighbours are as close and as in good a shape as they have been for years.
That's not to say they can't be made better; that's not to say we shouldn't keep working on them, but we're a very actively involved player in the region, and, of course, we have some very close bilateral relations, both economically and politically, with many of the countries of South-East Asia and North Asia.
TONY JONES: Nonetheless, you did feel the need to directly reassure the Indonesians that there'd be no pre-emptive strikes on their soil.
Is it fair to say now that the pre-emptive doctrine itself doesn't apply to any ASEAN country?
JOHN HOWARD: Well, there's never been a doctrine, Tony.
You know that as well as I do.
TONY JONES: But it doesn't apply - the statements that you've made, they don't apply to any ASEAN country?
JOHN HOWARD: Well, Tony, if there is no doctrine, then it obviously, by definition, can't apply to anybody.
But we've been over all of this before, and I don't intend to retrace it because our position is very clear.
TONY JONES: Let me ask you another question on the treaty, though, if I can.
If Australia had been party to such a treaty at the time of the East Timor crisis, might that have prevented you sending troops to East Timor?
JOHN HOWARD: Well, Tony, I'd have to get some formal advice on that.
It's not a treaty that has been uppermost in my mind in the time that I've been Prime Minister.
I don't mean that dismissively, it's just that it's really only come on the radar screen over the last couple of weeks.
But self-evidently, the action we took in East Timor was the right action, but Australia and Indonesia have moved on from that issue, and it's not something that looms as a problem.
It's not been in any way a difficulty in the discussions I've had with President Yudhoyono and I know that he seeks himself to have very good relations with the government and the people of East Timor.
But the region and both our nations and our peoples have moved on from that issue without in any way people resiling from the stances they took at the time.
TONY JONES: One of the points, though, about this treaty is that it's been considered something like a sacred text - a founding document, if you like, for ASEAN.
A diplomatic position that could have saved face for the Asian countries that have been pushing you getting involved might have been to say, "We'll look at it.
"We'll consider it for the future "and we'll make up our minds over a period of time."
Why don't you take that line?
JOHN HOWARD: Well, Tony, we take the line that it's the substance of relations with countries that matters most rather than individual documents.
And bear in mind, we're not a member of ASEAN and nobody's suggesting that we're likely to be a member of ASEAN as such in the near future.
So the issue, I think, is well understood by our friends in the region, and I don't think it's quite the issue with them as some might call it to be.
TONY JONES: Does the treaty itself in its effect somehow discourage ASEAN members from criticising each other's internal policies?
I mean, is that one of the problems with it - that it actually restricts open and intelligent examination of each other's internal politics?
JOHN HOWARD: Well, I can't answer that question because I'm not prime minister of a country that's party to it, nor prime minister of a country that's a member of ASEAN, but I think our position is well understood.
TONY JONES: Alright.
Only today, Aung San Suu Kyi, who many consider to be the truly elected leader of Burma, was told by the junta that she would be kept behind closed doors, locked under house arrest, now possibly for up to another year.
Is it time to start taking a tougher stand against the Burmese military dictatorship?
JOHN HOWARD: Well, we've made it very plain in the past that we would like to see a more democratic approach in that country.
I'm not going to just give a knee-jerk reaction about tougher action, as you call it, against the regime without understanding a little more of the circumstances of that decision.
Plainly, our position is one of sympathy for her position and a desire to see a more open democratic approach being adopted in that country.
TONY JONES: I guess we've seen, obviously, in Iraq, where the United States and Australia and other members of the coalition of the willing thought it was necessary to intervene in a country to create a democracy.
Why isn't that principle also - or why doesn't that principle also apply equally to Burma?
JOHN HOWARD: Well, Tony, I think nobody is arguing - and I'm certainly not, and I don't recall President Bush or Tony Blair arguing - that every time you are displeased about what's happening in another country, you take it upon yourself to intervene.
That's certainly never been the doctrine of any Australian government that I've known, and it's certainly not the doctrine of my Government.
There were particular circumstances in Iraq that have been debated over and over and again.
I think what we must do in relation to Burma is to continue to argue in the fashion that we have, continue to put our case in the way that Mr Downer has very strongly - there's no argument as to where the Australian Government stands - and continue to put the arguments in a diplomatic and strong way.
TONY JONES: In the case of Burma, though, we've had a policy of constructive engagement.
We even take Burmese officials aside and try to train them in the ideals of democracy.
It doesn't seem to be working, does it?
JOHN HOWARD: Well, Tony, one thing I've learnt, both in politics and also to the extent that politics has taken me into areas of international relations, is that you have to be patient.
And as you know, I'm quite a patient man.
TONY JONES: I do know that, Prime Minister.
I guess what I'm wondering here is, if you are patient for another two years, you'll find that Burma takes over the rotating chairmanship of ASEAN.
That's going to create a problem, isn't it, a regional problem, to have a military dictatorship chairing ASEAN?
JOHN HOWARD: Well, I prefer to focus on the positives of the ASEAN association, and as I feel constrained to point out again, Australia is not a member of ASEAN as such, and the question of the chairmanship of ASEAN is an issue, but it's obviously not anywhere near as important as the linkages between the members of ASEAN and the very strong bilateral relationships that Australia has with the members of ASEAN and with countries in dialogue with ASEAN, such as China and India and Japan.
TONY JONES: Prime Minister, would you like to join ASEAN, or is that something that Australia would aim to do - to become part of ASEAN?
JOHN HOWARD: I'm a great believer in the substance of relationships rather than the number of meetings you go to or the form that they take.
I think we can fairly say that we have very close relations with the members of ASEAN.
I've spent a large amount of time talking to my friend the Prime Minister of Thailand at this meeting.
We have a free trade agreement with Thailand.
At lunch, I talked extensively to the Prime Minister of Singapore.
We have a free trade agreement with Singapore.
It's a member of ASEAN.
I've established a very good relationship with the new President of Indonesia, and given the history of the relationship, I think it's fair to say that the links between our two countries are very good.
All of this has happened without the form of our membership of a particular grouping.
It's happened because we have focused on the substance of relations and the things that we have in common, and that's been the guiding principle, as far as I'm concerned, in the time that I've been Prime Minister, and it will continue to be in the years ahead.
TONY JONES: Prime Minister, I know that way up there in Vientiane, it must seem a long way from events back home in Canberra, but you do know what it's like - if I can bring your mind back here - you do know what it's like to be an embattled Opposition Leader.
I'm wondering, do you have any thoughts on what Mark Latham is going through at the present moment?
You must be following it and I'm wondering if, in the spirit of Christmas, given that we're getting towards the end of the year, you might have some advice for him?
JOHN HOWARD: Well, I think the most Christmas-like thing I can do is to wish him and his wife and children a very merry Christmas.
I hope they have a restful time, as I intend to do.
I'm not going to give him any gratuitous advice, I think that always sounds self-serving.
I do think about the issue quite a bit, even up here in Vientiane - I have a lot of thoughts - but in that same spirit of goodwill, I want to wish you a very merry Christmas, Tony.
I've enjoyed our encounters during the year, and you rest and we'll have some more in the new year.
TONY JONES: I hope that's the case, Mr Howard.
Can I just ask you one final domestic question, though, because you're not going to have control of the Senate until halfway through the coming year.
In the meantime, there's going to be one last big Senate inquiry, the targets of which are the Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson, Senator Sandy Macdonald and the whole idea of regional partnerships that the Commonwealth Government has funded.
What are your thoughts on that Senate inquiry?
Should Mr Anderson and Senator Macdonald refuse to cooperate with it?
JOHN HOWARD: Well, it's politically motivated, it's got nothing to do with the common good.
It's all political and it's a demonstration of how time and money's been wasted by the political antics of the Labor Party and some of the minor parties in the Senate.
I have no doubt about the propriety of things that have been done by the Deputy Prime Minister, and I don't fear that inquiry, and we'll respond in the way we have to like inquiries in the past.
TONY JONES: Which means, I take it, that you would advise Mr Anderson and Senator Macdonald not to appear before the committee?
JOHN HOWARD: Well, I wouldn't expect that they would be appearing any more than ministers and members of Parliament have appeared before these committees in the past.
That's not the practice.
It wasn't the practice under Labor, it hasn't been under us, and that's not going to change.
I think the public will see this for what it is - a political exercise of a rather pointless kind.
But that's next year, and I'm sure we'll be able to respond in the appropriate way.
TONY JONES: Well, Prime Minister, we'll come back to our season's greetings now.
That is the last time we'll be able to speak to you this year.
We do hope to speak to you again in the new year and we thank you for taking the time to come and talk to us tonight.
JOHN HOWARD: Well, Merry Christmas to you, Tony, and to all of your people at Lateline.
I look forward to seeing you next year. More Burma News from this Month |
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